john mccain is a true national hero, so is chuck hagel. i have been at dinners, i was the emcee at the nixon dinner paying tribute to john kyl. john mccain did the opening. this is not a war between people. we often over-emphasize these questions of division. these are real debates. this is why we are here. this is why we have the capital behind us for these major discussions. i think it was a problem for chuck hagel because he demonstrated independence of thought and questioning that was vital for the country. host: i want to go back to something you said and frame it in terms of what the president said. about and afghanistan, saying iraq was a war of choice. afghanistan was a war of necessity and iraq was a war of choice. was iraq necessary? and if so, why? what did we accomplish? guest: we have not accomplished much. host: so was it worth it? guest: it depends on a lot of factors that are out of my control. terrible tyrant to his people there is no question we're better off with him gone. then the question is how we implemented doing th